Monday, 2 March 2009


The 5.00pm meeting of TDC's Airport Working Party last Friday was poorly advertised and not surprisingly, poorly attended by interested members of the public..
I now ask this simple question: Is this 'Working Party', under the Chair of Cllr Harrison, just going through the motions as a 'cover' for TDC ?
We all know that TDC at an 'extraordinary Full Council' on the 19th February effectively extended 'night-flying' times for Infratil at KIA in the fond expectation that BAWC/GSS will move some 747-400 aircraft from Stansted to fly freight into and out of Manston. What seems to be coming clear is that the S.106 agreement 'passed ' by TDC has no 'teeth' and effectively gives the status to Manston of being ' OPEN ALL HOURS' for 747-400s because they have a QC4 rating on landing and taking off!
Here are some snippets from The Minutes of the Airport Working Party of 5 Feb (two weeks before the Full Council Decision);

"The operator (Infratil) should take up responsibility for effectual monitoring of noise and air quality control pending an amendment of the agreement with the current Kent Air Quality Contract".
"Members also agreed that a penalties system should be looked into further."
(About Bournemouth Airport) "Webtrack is used to monitor aircraft movement which proved useful when a complaint was received concerning an aircraft BEING OFF THE FLIGHT PATH or OUT OF THE AGREED FLYING HOURS. (The Working Party agreed 'to look into this but secondary radar capacity required is not yet part of Kent International Airport's infratructure).
I'm sorry TDC but it seems to me that the Council at Bournemouth is doing its job and YOU ARE NOT!
I am a supporter of controlled and careful expansion of KIA at Manston but if this is TDC's approach to its responsibilities as the LPA, then heaven help us! For goodness sake Councillors, can't you do your job as effectively as your colleagues in Bournemouth?


Anonymous said...

What do you expect from Thanet Councillors Bertie? You don't think they stand for office for the good of the residents do you! Our current administration votes with its pocket.

Stop Manston Expansion Group said...

bertie, the answer to your final question. No, they can't do their job as effectively as most other councils in the country, and it reflected in the council league tables. In comparison to other councils who have airports in their midst,I would imagine many are better, but sadly, many are worse- east midlands airport, "managed" by 5 surrounding council districts, allowed 20,000 night flights on 2008.

Tdc can only aspire......

Jeremy said...

QC4 aircraft are quiet, so what's the problem. My office in Ramsgate is right under the 28 approach. The 2 Cargolux 747s today made no more noise than each car, van or lorry that goes past my window. It's road traffic that makes the real noise.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Jeremy. Either you're getting on a bit and your hearing is starting to go, or you're deliberately trying to mislead people. QC4 aircraft produce noise levels between 96 and 98.9 EPNdB (decibels). This is the noise level measured by a monitor placed on level ground three miles from take-off or landing (i.e. the noise you will actually experience) In Ramsgate, noise levels tend to be higher than this because much of the town is above the runway, so aircraft are relatively lower. This level of noise is on a par with a pneumatic drill. Your office may well be as noisy as hell but you don't try to sleep in your office, do you? I am quite happy for people to have views on this issue but it isn't acceptable for people to lie about the facts. QC4 aircraft make a hell of a lot of noise and they will cause massive disruption if they start coming in or going out in the night. Whether they bother you more or less than the traffic is not really the issue.

Anonymous said...


Can I have some of your anti hearing pills or the same Bull S**T deflectors!!!

Better still get a hearing check as they were certainly noisy.

Anonymous said...

Jeremy, you are surely having a laugh. I work from home, those two aircraft passed directly over my house and they definitely made more noise than passing traffic. In fact, I was on the phone to a client when one flew over and had to stop the conversation until it had passed. I understand you are pro airport expansion, I have yet to make up my mind either way but please don't insult anyone's intelligence by saying the noise from road traffic is comparable. You'll be saying that the wind makes the real noise next.

Stop Manston Expansion Group said...

over 100db 747's have been measured at in Ramsgate. If a car or bike were that loud, it wouldn't be road legal.. And they are at 0 feet altitude, not 500-1000ft

Cllr. Mike Harrison said...


Its a bit naughty to take 'snippets' from minutes and then use them out of context as it gives a different meaning. Minutes need to be taken as a whole and read in conjunction with other background papers.

The current system of penalties will be reviewed when the new 106 Agreement is drawn up. Without pre-empting any decision or discussion my own view is that penalties should be meaningful but not punative.

Insofar as the Webtrack system is concerned that was installed at Bournemouth when they reached certain levels of business, when, not IF it or something similar is installed at Manston it will be by agreement between TDC and Infratil.
Incidently its our colleagues at Christchurch Council not Bournemouth.

Smeghead has as usual covered himself with glory by getting everything wrong. I assume that the 100db he refers to was measured with some sort of kiddies science set and not a properly licensed and calibrated instrument and if indeed it was at 0 feet altitude then I must have missed the news item about a 747 landing on Ramsgate !!

Bertie Biggles said...

Cllr Harrison, thank you very much for that clarification and please forgive my 'license' in selective extracts. I look forward to an exemplary monitoring regime to be put in place by you and your fellow Councillors in due course, that safeguards the environmental and quality of life issues of Thanet residents whithout stifling controlled growth of KIA.