Friday, 27 June 2008

LABOUR IN TROUBLE NATIONALLY - TORIES IN TROUBLE LOCALLY?



Poor Gordon Brown! An unelected ex-Chancellor with one year into the job as Primeminister that he clearly hungered for and now very unpopular. I am also feeling sorry for poor Mowice because locally, he appears as unpopular as Gordon is nationally.

The big question, is who will be heaved out first by their fellow party members?

The point will be reached shortly when many Labour MPs realise that P45 time is likely to approach unless they dump Gordon and our Tories , locally, will have to live with the ignominy of losing Thanet to Labour whilst the rest of the country votes in David and his team. Roger Gale and Laura Sandys will then find themselves as a minority of Tory constituency MPs whose 'own' Council is Labour.

As we witness the sadness of Zimbabwe's decline into darkness, we need to appreciate how lucky we are to be able to discuss these issues of 'Leadership' freely and to be able to do something about it, should we want to.

71 comments:

Anonymous said...

You're up and about early Bertie!no burning midnight oil last night to get your copy out?
Shame no other tories will openly line up against him - think Chris Wells got his fingers burnt last time to risk it again, what about Bob Bayford or Bill Hayton, both probably too long in the tooth ---it has to be some of the newly elected ones - do a "Dave" lets have a Thanet conservative makeover with some young fresh unseasoned blood on show! - throw out some of the dead wood!

Anonymous said...

Bob Bayford did stand against Sandy a year or two back and got unceremoniously dumped from Deputy to oblivion to make way for Latchford.

I doubt many of the current crop would take a stand as they know if they lose, it's the backbenches for them.

Anonymous said...

bit pitiful if the state of tory politics is that no-one will stand against a tyrant. sounds like dictatorship
As ECR says no cuddley conservatives here just a load of back stabbers - hope central office reading this!

Anonymous said...

Why would anyone want to challenge for a job that involves long anti-social hours and pays £17,000 a year with unlimited personal abuse thrown in as a fringe benefit!

This is the problem with local democracy. Those that might be tempted by or most qualified for a leadership role in the community simply can't afford to give-up the day job!

Many councillors of both parties can't afford to let younger people in because the small monthly expenses payment represents a significant proportion of their retirement income and they will fight to stay put as a result. Not quite like Mr Mugabe but you know what I mean!

That's Thanet's problem.

Ken Gregory said...

Trouble with your reasoning Bertie, is that local council elections are in 2011. National elections are at latest in 2010. If the conservative group locally, wanted to change their leader, plenty of time left. If not, time enough for the current leader to prove himself as better for Thanet than others..

either way, our group has rules, if a leader is elected, he/she gets the support of the group. Its called democracy.

Anonymous said...

The same democracy, Cllr. Gregory, that enabled your party to push through a ruling that the public, except for the Planning Officer, the Chair of Planning and certain representatives from parishes, can no longer speak at planning site vists?

Ken Gregory said...

Oh Please, Ken not Cllr, These rules were pushed through by the constitutional working party, not the ruling group. I have to say that I do have issues with these rules, but they are up for review. I will be saying that I think the public should be allowed to speak at site visits. The answer will be determined by the Constitutional working party.

Final comment is that to change the system we have to work from inside

John Worrow said...

I joined the Conservative Party partly because since being elected at parish level I have had the good fortune to work with hard working Conservative Cllrs like Margaret Sheldrick.

I am still on very good terms with the Chair of the Lib-Dems as well as Thanets two Independent District Councillors, Labour members,Green Party supporters, and A-political residents.

We have a lot of good Cllrs in Thanet and just because I chose to join, and work with my fellow Birchington Clrs as a Conservative it does not mean that I will be forced into 'tit4tat politics'

A lot of things that were written about me today are incorrect.

Firstly I have always voted Conservative AT GENERAL ELECTIONS, something that I was totally OPEN about on the door step before I was elected.

I had a different postion than some Councillors on a few Birchington issues, but those issues have now resolved.

As for Clive Hart, he has only met me once, and ignored me, so its amazing that he thinks that he can judge me.

The important thing is to work for good of the community no matter what our political colour.

Thank you for an interesting blog, Bertie.

Anonymous said...

John, I'm no Conservative, but I respect you for what you are saying. I just want good people representing Thanet. You have to remember John, that Clive Hart is a lot older than you, and being part of the old school, he is afraid of your energy, and your thirst for knowlegde and new ideas.

From now on I vote for the person not the party.

Well done for being bold John


Ian M
Westgate

Tony Beachcomber said...

John I also have only met you once and that was at the count in the May 2007 elections. It is perhaps the only occassion when local politicians are civil towards each other as nobody likes a bad loser.
What struck me about you was how anti Conservative you was, infact your rhertoric did knock me on the back foot a bit.
I thought there's a guy that is going to make waves in Birchington. Funny how you have changed your tune since the implosion of independant action and Cllr Roger Latchford has annouced his retirement at the next election.

John Worrow said...

Tony, yes you are quite right to say that I was anti-conservative at that point in time.

There were many things, particularly issues regarding Birchington that I was not happy about. However, I have never fell out with Roger Gale, and have always voted for him at General Elections.

If had jumped from one party to another that would not be a good thing, but the Independent Group/Party that I belonged to has disbanded, therefore I have every right to review my situation. But of course I know there will be people out there that choose to see otherwise.

At the end of the day I am a volunteer who gives my time freely and those that truely know me are aware that my intentions are good.

It would be nice to meet you again Tony because my outlook on a number of things in my life have changed since May 2007.

Anonymous said...

I think that young John is a breath of fresh air. I prefer his thinking to those that say "I vote for this party because my family have always done so, and for me not to do so would make me a traitor to my class..

Hes group has finished and he is big enough to make his own choices.

He has done nothing wrong apart from upset those that are afraid of his progress.

DH

Anonymous said...

Agree the tories in Thanet are bucking the national trend, and popularity is rapidly decreasing, yet nationally Conservative popularity has increased. Local people/businesses are becoming very unhappy with the way this council have failed with our towns. I am a consevative voter, but would not vote for the current incumbents.

Clive Hart said...

I don't usually comment on these blogs but just now and then someone writes something that is just pure nonsense.

John Worrow is all over the place. 'At one time I thought like this and at another I thought I thought like that'. Isn't that the point - he changes like the wind so who's to say how he'll think next week?

As for age, I may be older but I do sincerely hope I'm also a little wiser than someone who slags people off only to find he needs them as chums when his own tinpot organisation falls apart.

It tickled me pink last week watching Mr Worrow assembling with the Tories in Devonshire Gardens near Tesco and as for ignoring the lad - it was me who blasted my horn at Mr Worrow seconds after he entered Cliftonville West, crossing the road outside Quick Fit.

He really should have looked a little closer and assesed the situation before deciding to cross over!


.

Anonymous said...

I am a consevative supporter but will not vote for this council. Local people/businesses are very disatisfied with the way our towns have been left to decline and the tdc policies. It is no supprise that the tories locally are loosing local support and will continue to do so, bucking the national trend of Conservative popularity.

Anonymous said...

To John Worrow:

I voted for you as an independent candidate. Had I wanted to vote for a tory candidate I would have done so. I now find that my vote was effectively null and void because I it seems I have elected another tory. You no longer represent me or my vote.

John Worrow said...

Hello Clive,

My apologies for not recognising you in your car, if I had, I would have offered to share my sandwiches with you.

Please feel free to stop and say hi next time.

Kindest Regards

John

John Worrow said...

If you really live in Birchington North, and indeed voted for me, you would know that I stood as 'Putting People First'.

People do not stand for political parties in parish elections, and if you live in a village you would know that.

Anonymous said...

Why do people care about age so much? It seems that under David Cameron the blues are only recruiting candidates that look like school boys. We need wise older people, but at least the Tories have OBE

Anonymous said...

Giving free parking in Margate on Saturdays is a step in the right direction, but one wonders why this was not considered at the decision to recently put up parking charges dramatically. Did the council at that stage not realise that local shops are closing at record rate and that by putting up parking charges, only increases closures, as people will not come to the town centres.

Tony Beachcomber said...

John, You certainly know how to put yourself in the limelight I give you that.
Personally I think you have jumped on the wrong boat and you should have stuck to yours guns and gained political maturity. I know local politics is not easy when you are on your own, but to join a party whos only existance is to conserve the establish order in Thanet by remaining in power at all costs will lead to disappointment in the long term. For someone who like yourself who would like to see change I think you will eventually find it hard going.
Anyway I am bound to bump into you somewhere along the line so until then, Adios.

Rick said...

How are you Tony

I just found a national colleague of yours got stuck into debate

I wonder if he knew that a civil servant at MOD administering the cuts was Mrs Jack Straw ?

If you read it through then I think you'll see why I am about to ask my MP to send a question to Secretary of State for Defence questioning the role of Cllr Hayton in Kent.

And also what busy beavers certain thanet "Tory parties" were especially between 1990 and 1998 ?

The last time I complained about Hayton was ruled as his conduct before TDC adopted the Standards Code (IE the complaint was not declared unfounded but prior to SBFE jurisdiction as I understand it)

I have sent emails to Mr Gilmartin Clerk to Kent Police Authority reminding him that I wrote to Pc ELEY charging him with a duty in Dec 1999 (and copied the letter at the time to both Coroners involved in the Philip SEED custody death inquests and the Home Secretary and Shadow Home Secretary)

I have asked GILMARTIN to put questions to Hayton and you can find them detailed on the blog.

You know the pre High Court hearing assessment in 98 that DOLDING would be wise but HAYTON might be reckless ?

Was it prophetic ? Now is the time to look for the way to make him answer.

I still think that if he won't answer (like was he not a witness at all or was he a witness of fact or an expert witness with duties to the court) then either TDC or KPA should pay to obtain the transcript and that they are obligated by Common Law to do so.

John Worrow said...

Thanks Tony

Whenever I read the newspaper from now on I will not be so quick to judge.

They totally change a story by taking the most important facts out and replacing them with the remarks from people like County Councillor Clive Hart who is a paid politician.

As a volunteer I just want to work with everyone that wants the best for Thanet.

I am sorry if Clive is threatened by my decision, but it came from my heart not his.

All the best.. Mr Tomorrow
(as they call me in Birchington)

Anonymous said...

Bertie you are doing well - 3 councillors openly naming themselves on the blog - recognise others writing undercover too!
Maybe you are now one of Thanet's main soundbites - i'm sure thats flattering - for what really goes on in the Isle forget the Gazette -go to Thanet Strife for Bertie's take on it all!

Bertie Biggles said...

Have returned from my Friday watering hole and caught up with discussion and delighted to see a polite exchange of thoughts going on.
Firstly,Ken. I accept the principle of falling in line with the party collective decision behind 'Our Leader' but how long will it be before embarrassing 'encounters'or 'episodes' go beyond that principle? I am delighted to hear that the odd 'protocol' at TDC to silence the contribution of affected locals at planning Site Visits is to be reviewed. I hope this will be revised back to the KCC policy of allowing input from the public so that Councillors can hear all aspects of a problem before making a decision. My sources tell me that the recent CGP site visit was a 'preliminary' one and that you stated that another visit will be held. This does not appear to match the information given my source by Doug Brown who seems to think a further site visit to Manston is not needed.

13.52 raises an interesting point about working, talented members of the community not being able to afford to give up the 'day-job'to be a councillor whilst the retired 'old-guard'can augment pensions. Perhaps it is time to pay Councillors a 'loss of earnings' allowance to enable the younger active 'Turks' to make a more positive and businesslike impact on our Community Affairs? A thick skin also seems a CV requirement and perhaps we should acknowledge more positively the sacrifice that taking on the responsibilities of a Councillor entails?

Delighted to see Cllr Worrow from Birchington PC putting his case so well for joining the Conservatives.It is a sad fact that 'conversion' is often viewed with suspicion but that does not stop Cllr Worrow still thinking independently. Isn't there a by-election about to occur on an independent matter of principle?

Thanks for that accolade, 22.08; always glad to hear that people enjoy visiting. It seems to me that the real value of a 'blog' is the ability of everyone out there to join in a forum for discussion and express their thoughts and opinions and for others to join in a polite debate, without being too nasty about it.It is also a medium that has immediacy and thus liveliness.

Councillors joining in Clive, is good news and please do so anonymously or otherwise. I was particularly annoyed, as i am sure you are aware from my previous posts, of the way your good name and reputation was impugned concerning an incident at the Winter Gardens last year and I understand your reluctance to comment on blogs.
Time to get some sleep; g'nite

Anonymous said...

Parish Cllr. Worrow is in good company as a party-jumper but I, for one, would always suspect anyone whose views suddenly had such a major Road to Damascus conversion. After all, his now-defunct party did field a candidate in the Broadstairs TC by-election recently and he appeared happy enough with his independent view then. Historically, there are precedents including that old Tory favourite, Churchill, but things didn't always go smoothly for him.

On TDC, of course, we have Cllr. Taylor elected as Ramsgate First, who suddenly realised he was a Tory after all and jumped ship.

You may find the electorate not as happy as you seem to think of a 'jumper' but as a member of a non-existent party, they can hardly de-select you.

John Worrow said...

08:08

We need to get some fact right

1. Firstly I did NOT jump from one party to another, the party that I was a member of disbanded.

2. I have always voted Conservative in General Elections, something that I was totally OPEN about on the door step before I was elected.

3. NONE of the parish councillors, including myself stood for a party/group in the parish elections. It is a known fact that in Parish elections people vote for the PERSON.
It is only in Town, District and County that the party comes into it.

So I have done everything the correct way, like everyone else who lives in in a free country I have the right to choose my own politics.

In fact in my Birchington North Ward I have gained even my support.

Anonymous said...

John - I am surprised that you feel your support has increased. Many life long tories I know are sick to the back teeth of their local tory representatives in Birchington North and will vote anything but tory at any election from now on - me for one.

Ken Gregory said...

Bertie, The subject of a further site visit, at Manston, was mentioned, My comment was 'Members of the planning committee will decide, not me or officers'.

I stand by that. With regard to the conduct of site visits, yes they will be subject to review, as will the general procedures at planning.

Anonymous said...

Parish Councillor Worrow -you say none of the candidates for Brichington stood for a party or GROUP. Your election result, as shown on TDC's website, states you stood for Putting People First. May not be a party but it surely qualifies as a 'group'?

I think most people accept that you're a Tory at heart so at least you're open about it now.

Anonymous said...

The Grey Party or whatever it was called was disbanded because you couldn't get any support so it suited you then to show your true colours.

John Worrow said...

As I was the only person in Thanet that stood as 'Putting People First' it was not a group.

I would like to think that Cllrs
of all parties put people first.

Anonymous said...

BIRCHINGTON PARISH ELECTION 2007



WORROW John Putting People First 882 ELECTED

LATCHFORD Roger Anthony 836 ELECTED

i just looked the results, its strange that John beat Roger in the Parish, but Roger was elected in the District. Both elections were held on the same day. Life is strange, very strange.
I guess the parish is not where the power is.


Sue M

John Worrow said...

Sue, it is because people vote differently in parish elections.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone heard how the elections are going in Zimbabwe?

Anonymous said...

I am glad that the Queen is going to take his honour away as it is very important to him

Tony Beachcomber said...

John, I dont think Clive Hart is treatened by you, it is just that he has been around along as I have and we have seen it all before, you are not the first and certainly not the last.Even the most patient observer living in Thanet for a long time, must be thinking here we go again. Independant/come Tory/ Tory reform group/independant conservative etc over the horizon.
Now if you had joined the Lib Dems and resurected them in Birchington you would have certainly set local politics alight instead you opted for another shade of grey.

Anonymous said...

John how naive you are - all councillors should be putting people first the whole point is the current lot of tories arent - just furthering their own materialist agendas - good luck - you will be in a minority - only a few upright members i'm afraid in the tories.
Sadly too much of a minority to do anything about the others.

Clive Hart said...

Bertie

Firstly please understand - it is rare for me to visit one of these weblogs twice in a week. Usually far too busy and the occasional browse has to be my style.

However, it's Saturday night and I'd like to thank you for your kind welcome of 28th June and your further comment reference that nasty incident last year when I had to turn the other cheek to 'you know who' despite his loud and disgusting goading.

And please don't worry, I certainly do not need the option of anonymity to post my views on your weblog - I am only too pleased to put my name to anything that I feel needs saying!

Anonymous said...

Good old Clive, we need more types like you and Iris stand up and be counted! What's happened to the others?
Tories All a bunch of sheep being herded around by Mowice with Wodger the leading ewe.

Anonymous said...

Good old Clive does everything because he is so kind and selfless

Anonymous said...

With the he money he costs the tax payer I'm glad that he at least pretends to be busy

Anonymous said...

I am so wonderful and my friend Iris is lovely also. We are all so fair and blanced. We are so proud to be so open minded. The Tories are to blame for everything that goes wrong in the world, including my hemorrhoids. Gordon Blown is so clever, fuel prices are coming down and my friend the tooth fairy told me that everything is going to alright because I am God.

I will buck the national trend when I am dreaming tonight la la the world is flat the tooth fairy told me and Iris. la la la la I am so important. Do you know how lucky you are that I'm here?

Anonymous said...

WE ARE ALL FAIR AND BALANCED HERE, fair and balanced against Tories, and anyone else who is doing well in life.

Anonymous said...

We need to support people on the internet. I was hit by my husband and coming on here helps me to forget about it. to forget about it*

Bertie Biggles said...

I cannot go off to bed without commenting 23.14 on your posting. You can seek help for the issue you refer to and please, please do so.

Ken, with only half the Councillor's attending a site visit of such an important application i am surprised at your comment. As I wasn't there, I cannot disprove your statement "'Members of the planning committee will decide, not me or officers'." in regard to a second site visit. It was certainly not the impression conveyed to me and if anyone out there can give their perspective on this issue I would be most grateful.

Anonymous said...

The Labour Party is deeply unpopular just now, and on present form is likely to lose the next General Election. Shades of the Tories and 1997. Many people feel badly let down by them.

But is the alternative - the Tories - really any better? Have they changed over the last 11 years?

Apart from looking at their performance and behaviour in Thanet, over recent months a string of top Tories have been found to have had their hands in the till, or are suspected of having them there. Conway, Winterton, Spelman, and, it seems, most of their MEP strength.

Couple all of that with the puerile and waspish (at least)content of some of the latest contributions on here and you have to ask "are the Tories a credible alternative?".

John Worrow said...

09:56

Yes, of course the Conservative Party has changed. Like many people throughout the country, I joined the Conservative Party because it has changed. People within every party see things differently, but I won't deny the fact that the Conservative Party has changed, because it quite clearly has.
The political weather has changed because the Conservative Party has changed.

We’re a modern Party focused on the future. And that means we keep up the momentum of change.

Anonymous said...

John is right, but we know there are people like Scottish Labour leader Wendy Alexander in every party. David Cameron is too liberal for me, but I will give him credit where credit is due, he has changed the Conservative party for the better.


David S

Anonymous said...

Sorry, John, the Tory Party hasn't changed as the various statements of what they intend to do show. It's still the party that favours the wealthy as their proposed tax cuts to the rich show. They want to slash public spending (that means among other areas, education, NHS, transport, highways), abolish the Working Families' Tax Credit, get rid of the flexible working arrangements that help families, do away with the New Deal, abolish Sure Start that has done great work among disadvantaged families helping with parenting skills and encouraging single parents back into work. This is the party that opposed the minimum wage that whilst it isn't perfect, has stopped unscrupulous employers paying staff rates as low as £1 an hour,the party that wants to make everyone take out insurance to pay for health care. All the above have helped many of those in Thanet start to get a better life and, yes, I know not everything is perfect but there is much improvement in the area ( leaving aside the damage done by your party during their tenure in charge of TDC). Now, John, please go away and stop trying to build a political career for yourself via this blog.

John Worrow said...

I find the last comment that this person wrote to be quite revealing

"Now, John, please go away and stop trying to build a political career for yourself via this blog"


I'VE GOT NEWS FOR YOU

This bloke is not going away,

and David Camerons Conservative party is not going away

Anonymous said...

John - I seem to remember you canvassing and during the course of our conversation you lambasted the Birchington North councillors. I was informed that the 'Grey Party' offered an alternative that was truely interested in and representative of the local community. You did not declare your true colours to me and if your patter was repeated door to door I doubt they were shown to anyone.

Anonymous said...

I never thought I'd hear myself say it, but the Tories look like the best option. I think the main reason for that is because Labour have had 10 years and they haven't really done what they promised. There are now serious problems in the country and that hurts Thanet.

Gordon Brown needed to reinvigorate the economy and I don't think he has done that.

He gave our gold to Europe for a low price;and told fibs about giving us a choice regarding the EU Treaty.

He done a Robert Maxwell with Pension funds, and now he has spent all our money he is like a frightnened gazelle running from a lion.

Perhaps it's time we gave the New Tories a go.

(NHS Worker from Ramsgate)

John Worrow said...

12:49

Yes I had my differences with the two Tory Cllrs in my ward. But with the help of Cllr Sheldrick they have now been resolved.

There is one very important fact that some people may not aware of.

When I stood for the Independent/Greys, it was in a District Council election.
I was NOT elected as a Distrct Councillor.

Anyway, the IA/Grey Party has been DISBANDED, and I have every right to review my political status.

Anonymous said...

You are totally whithin your rights John, but you have to be aware of the fact that Gordon Brown's local mob will try to confuse matters in order to score false political points. John I very much doubt if the 'anonymous' person even lives in Birchington, and if they do they probably voted Labour anyway. But not to worry John, people are not as daft as the Labour Party think they are. I am a UKIP supporter myself but a respect you for being BOLD. Many of those that try to attack you are ---less.

TS
Ramsgate

Anonymous said...

Such a pity John - you seem like a nice guy, much nicer than the present incumbant councillors in BN. Just such a pity that you turned to the Dark Side!

Anonymous said...

16:30

There is a dark side and a good side to all three parties. You choose to forget that BLAIR and BROWN have the blood of women and children on their hands(IRAQ)

Both John Worrow and Laura Sandys were against the IRAQ war. Clive Hart Supported his Leader at the time, but now trys to back track.

I think we need to look at it this way. Although I wish John WOULD HAVE joined the Lib-Dems, at least we have one more good guy in the Tory Camp. I don't think Clive Hart done Labour any favours by telling untruths about john in the newspaper because we need the 'good guys' in both parties. I am glad that John Worrow is in the company of another 'good guy' Laura Sandys.

Anonymous said...

Have you not thought that this why Clive Hart is trying to Demonise John because he fears a nice person more than he does a nasy one. I agree we need nice guys in both parties

Anonymous said...

I think Labour are looking in a lot of trouble with EURO & KCC elections coming up next year and I think Clive Hart is showing all the signs of not being a capable county councillor by choosing easy targets like young parish cllrs instead of talking on people his own political size.

James Maskell said...

Anon 12:15 29th June has no idea of the current state of Tory policy and just rants the typical spiel about Tories without having read any of the speeches or policy documents.

1. Public spending would still increase under a Conservative Government but not as quickly as under Labour. Theres no talk of cutting public spending, and ther assertion that that is the case is really just a desperate line Labour has been peddling since it came to power. As for helping the rich with taxes, I concede there does appear to be a point with shares and IHT, but families with married parents seem to benefit some from Conservative proposals.

2. There would be no abolition of the Working Families Tax Credit at all, in fact they would be amended to cut out the penalty that married couples get. No one has advocated abolition so I dont know where your thought came from there.

3. There would be no forcing anyone to take insurance for healthcare unless they chose to do so. Cameron has said so clearly.

4. Flexible working would be expanded under the Conservatives. He made a major speech on that very issue some time ago. Google "General Well-Being".

5. There would be no abolition of the New Deal, despite pressure from the members to do so. There would be some reform of the system to ensure it works more effectively. Nor would the Conservatives abolish SureStart.

You clearly know absolutely nothing about Tory policy and spout off your misrepresentations and stereotypes without having spent any time reading the speeches.

Anonymous said...

On the contrary I have, James. The only definite policy that seems to have been accepted by the Tories is to bring back hunting and to cut taxes for the rich.

The other points made by 12.15 are well-documented. The general feeling amongst many is that the Tories are so vague about what they intend to do that many of their policy statements seem to contradict each other. The Inheritance Tax statement at last year's conference is hardly going to help many especially in a falling house price market but will help those with real wealth.

Osborne, having criticised the 10p tax abolition, and rightly so, has stated the Tories have no intentions of re-instating it. Tax cuts for the rich but no relief for the poor.

Harriet Harman wants to introduce an Equality Bill finally to get rid of the situation where women are discriminated against financially,(among other targets of her bill). Daily Mail's response (and we know Dave takes advice from their columnists) typically announces women take lower-paid work 'to have more time with their kids'. What arrogant rubbish. The Equality Bill aims at stamping out various inequalities whereby a black woman walking along the terrace at the House of Commons would no longer be asked why she was there. She was an MP and said so. To which the Tory grandee replied,'My God, they're letting anyone in these days'.

When the Tory benches in the House of Commons seem to be full of ex-public schoolboys who all go to the same universities, belong to the same clubs that, incidentally ban women, how can anyone say the party has changed? They are still committed to tax cuts for the rich and don't try to tell us otherwise.

You are I assume young judging by your photograph ao won't remeber 15% interest rates that crippled industry and home owners. Mortgage compnanies used to have shopping trolleys full of Jiffy bags of keys dropped off by home owners that couldn't keep up the payments and lost their homes. Monetary policy ruined many and we don't want those days back but I'm not convinced that Cameron's Compassionate Conservatives have the answer.

Anonymous said...

James

Its interesting that the Labour Party Spokesman chooses to be anonymous

Why do they hide?


Tim Walton

Anonymous said...

If you really believe in what you are saying you should put your name to it.

New Labour, same old double standards..

You have had 10 years to fix things, but all you have done is spent the nations wealth, divided the people, invaded IRAQ causing a global holy war against the west.
And you try to blame the Tories and Liberals.

LABOUR TAX AND SPEND - REWARD THOSE THAT DON'T WANT TO WORK




Tim Walton

Anonymous said...

Well, Tim, anyone posting on here can be anonymous should they wish to do so. There can be a number of reasons why they may choose to:-

1) Anyone anonymous isn't out to create a high political profile

2) They can as Bertie allows it after all, Bertie is a nom-de-plume.

3) They may be in a job where political views are frowned on e.g.civil service/local government

4) They may be working for a local councillor/employer who frowns on self-expression.

Yours

Civil Servant, must be anonymous.

Bertie Biggles said...

13.31, thanks!

I am delighted to have a polite and even heated argument going on on Strife and heaven help us if we have to go down the road of 'approval'; blogger accounts only and the ultimate 'members only' that was the result of Thanet's Blog War.

If you want to identify yourself fully, that's fine by me. If you want to remain an 'anonymous' please feel free to do so. It is the argument that should be countered and not the source. If you do not want to enter into debate with an 'anon' then you don't have to.

James Maskell said...

If you have quotes etc showing that your assertions on Tory policy are accurate please by all means post them here. If you had followed Tory policy and read the speeches then you would know there are lots of accepted Tory policies. The Conservatives recently spoke about the need to have indicators for quality in the NHS rather than targets of speed...curious to see that Labour got in quick with the pickpockets yesterday announcing the very same policy. Welfare reform similarly was stolen from the Conservatives (the idea of testing people for what they can do rather than for what they cant is a Tory policy and was announced before Labour announced their plans). The Conservatives have pledged to increase the number of city academies and to free up schools more. As you have said yourself, the Conservatives have policies regarding the tax system (whether you agree with them or not is a moot point).

Your point about the 10p mess is interesting but seems to forget the point that just because Osborne has said that he wouldnt re-instate the 10p band, it doesnt mean that he would not help the lower paid. You seem to make a jump to conclusions there and the logic simply doesnt work. Re-instating it would be a mistake anyway.

The Equality Bill is going to be a nightmare. I thoroughly disagree with the idea behind this Bill. The Bill doesnt aim to create fairness in the workplace. It aims instead to force businesses to create opposite inequalities to balance out the original complaints. Unfortunately the Conservatives have bought into that philosophy with the A-List and other such tools.

So what if I am young. Are my views any less credible because I am young?

Anonymous said...

To the sneaky Civil Servant being anonymous.

30 June 2008 13:31




Civil Servants are the ones that cause the problems and live off of the tax payer at the same time.

Most cilvil servants are quite lazy as they don't have to live in the real world where people have to make a profit or sink.

Anonymous said...

Picking up on John Worrow's contributions... Simply repeating several times, John, that the Tories have changed (in your opinion) does not prove the case. Many hold a different view.

I would ask you, how have Roger Gale's views and political stances, changed?

Anonymous said...

I think Roger Gale, who is a right wing, David Davis man must have changed because he let John Worrow, who like David Cameron and Laura Sandys, is a more liberal Conservative, join the South Thanet Conservatives.
Why did John join South Thanet, he represents a North ward?


Officer.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9.32 I do agree about Roger Gale who, after all, has called for the death penalty for knife crime. Hardly shows a party member who has changed his view in line with Compassionate Dave. No doubt some of the right-wing folk will come on here and say'I agree with Roger' but I thought we'd left those 'hang'em and flog' days behind.

Anonymous said...

Yes we have left the hang em and flog em days behind. That is why we are in the mess we are now!!

1985 conviction for GBH, 15 years! 2008, conviction for GBH, 15 months.

Why, because the jails are full!!

Back in 1985 the jails were not full because the baddies knew that there was a penalty to getting arrested!!!